Dr. Precious Ekweani — Baze University

QS Chioma Precious Ekwani

[INTERVIEWER]: Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen, you are all welcome to another segment on gender equality and women educational leaders in the built environment. I'm your host for today, my name is Jummai Agidani, and in the studio with me today I have the head of department, Quantity Surveying, Baze University, QS Chioma. How are you doing today ma'am?

[QS PRECIOUS]: I'm all right.

[INTERVIEWER]: You're welcome.

[QS PRECIOUS]: Thank you so much.

[INTERVIEWER]: Nice to have you in our studio.

[QS PRECIOUS]: Thank you, it's always a pleasure.

[INTERVIEWER]: Can you tell us a bit about yourself please?

[QS PRECIOUS]: Okay, like you said earlier, my name is Chioma Precious Ekwani, I come from Oweri North, local government area of Imo State. I'm from a family of five, five children. I happen to be the second born, first daughter. We are currently four girls and a gentleman.

[INTERVIEWER]: Oh wow, that's really nice.

[QS PRECIOUS]: Apart from that, by faith, I got married to a young chap from Anambra State, and we are blessed with three children, twelve, ten and six years old.

[INTERVIEWER]: Oh wow, well I'll come to you when I need parenting lessons. So what motivated you to pursue a career in higher education in the built environment?

[QS PRECIOUS]: Well, I've always wanted to be in the academia, but I never envisaged being in the built environment. Right from my very young age, I've always had interest in teaching and passing on information, but I never knew I was going to be in the built environment, because I've always seen myself in the medical profession.

[INTERVIEWER]: Oh, you don't say.

[QS PRECIOUS]: Yes, so right from my secondary school days, in fact, I joined Red Cross from, I think at age seven, and during my junior secondary school days, I worked as an assistant health prefect up until SS2, when I became the laboratory prefect. My nickname in secondary school was doctor. I was already seeing myself practicing medicine and surgery, which was also what I applied for during my JAMB and senior WAEC in 2003, to be precise.

But fate found me in the built environment. I remember after my JAMB/WAEC in 2003, there was, I think I applied to Ahmadu Bello University, Zaria.

Their list of applications, sorry, what is it called? Admission lists. First, second, and third came out, and I was not shortlisted. I was becoming depressed and worried.

I remember one of my aunts came visiting, and she was concerned. She took my results, went back to the east, and two, three weeks later, we got a call that I've been offered admission to study quantity surveying. First of all, I never knew we had a university from my state, Imo State University, and then secondly, it was the first time I heard about the course quantity surveying.

That was in 2004, and immediately I told her I was not interested. So, but they encouraged me that after the first year, if you could get your GP up to 3.5, you can apply for a change of course, then go study medicine. Excited, I went to school, and that was how I found quantity surveying.

From there, one thing led to another, one thing led to another.

[INTERVIEWER]: So can you tell me about your experience working in higher education within the built environment? Is it different from your experiences as a student in the eastern part of Nigeria would you say?

[QS PRECIOUS]: Yeah, working in the northern environment is quite interesting.

Let me start by saying that I grew up in the north, so it's almost like I'm living my life the way I knew it. So I've been in the north since 1996. So I’m practically a northerner. So it's not challenging at all.

It was challenging when I went to Imo State University because my lifestyle and theirs were totally different. But in the north, I feel at home. There's not much difference.

[INTERVIEWER]: So how do you think factors such as race, ethnicity and sexual orientation play a role in gender diversity within the built environment field?

[QS PRECIOUS]: Well, I don't think race plays any much difference apart from, what would I call it? Interests. Yes, when we talk about gender diversity in the built environment, I will largely hinge it on interests.

Yes, because I don't think race play or ethnic diversity or whatever play much role than interest. Any woman you see in the built environment is there because she wants to.

Yes, I know the parents, the family may want to, may have one or two influences, but she's there primarily because she wants to.

[INTERVIEWER]: So how do you perceive the current opportunities for female academics in the built environment sector in northern Nigeria?

[QS PRECIOUS]: I think there are prospects because in the north, judging from the fact that most people in the north are just embracing education as against those from the south, I think there are a lot of prospects for the female professionals or educators in the northern part of Nigeria. And I believe that they will do well if they are really interested in it. It still boils down to interest.

[INTERVIEWER]: Okay. So would you say as a result of this that there are specific initiatives or programs in place to address gender-based inequalities and promote greater diversity and inclusion in higher education, especially within northern Nigeria? Okay. So you think there's a lot to be done?

Okay. So you think from your, from what you, from how you've answered previously, I take it you believe we can do more within the built environment to encourage women?

[QS PRECIOUS]: Yes. Yes, certainly.

[INTERVIEWER]: Okay. So you have said you are a wife, a mother, and a quantity surveyor, as well as the head of the quantity surveying department.

[INTERVIEWER]: Are there any specific initiatives or programs in place to address gender-based inequalities and promote greater diversity and inclusion in higher education within the built environment field in Northern Nigeria?

[QS PRECIOUS]: Well, I can't think of any other initiative apart from mentorship programs. I believe women feel very comfortable when they see other women doing very well in the field they have chosen. So I believe strongly that mentorship programs will do justice to that.

[INTERVIEWER]: Okay, so we need mentorship programs basically. Have you received any formal training or education related to your current position? Have you completed any relevant certifications or degrees?

[QS PRECIOUS]: Yes, academically, yes. Just waiting for my external defense for my PhD.

Professionally, I've written all the necessary examinations there has to be. So, once I get my PhD, which comes in the next couple of weeks hopefully, I'm looking at being a fellow of my institute.

[INTERVIEWER]: Oh, that's lovely. So, have you had any mentors or role models [a lot] who have influenced your profession? Would you like to mention? Are there any you care to mention?

[QS PRECIOUS]: Yes. Academically, I have the likes of Professor K.J Kulomri Adogbo, who has been my supervisor right from MSc. She supervised my MSc and PhD.

I also have in the profession, I have Dr. Celestina Eke, who is currently the NIQS Foundation Director General. Yes, and we've done amazing things together.

And apart from these two mentors, I have, will I call them sisters? That we are building together.

I believe in working and growing together as people, and I have a lot of them ample, too many to mention.

[INTERVIEWER]: Okay, that's fine. So how do you approach challenges and obstacles in your work? What strategies have you used to overcome any challenges that relate to gender in your career?

[QS PRECIOUS]: Well, when it comes to challenges, there are no one solution fits all.

You attack it depending on the kind of challenges or the kind of problem it presents itself. One thing that has helped me is planning. I think I take some time to plan my work in such a way that it doesn't interfere with the activities I have.

When it comes to gender-related challenges, one of the things that has helped me so far is to stay within my boundary and speak when I'm supposed to speak. I have worked with so many men in the industry, and oftentimes, in one or two occasions, I'm always the only woman in the group.

And the tendency for them to always hush you down, it's always there. But I don't know whether it's by luck or by chance. In every situation, I've found myself being the only woman. I've actually been like the head or the coordinator.

[INTERVIEWER]: Oh, okay. Oh, that's really great.

[QS PRECIOUS]: I've never had situations where people look down on me because I'm a woman when I'm dealing professionally. Except, of course, in my early years when I was trying to get into the profession, when I had things like, oh, they're giving you this job because you're a woman and all that. But practicing my profession, I have not had such challenges because I took time to develop myself. So when I speak, you have to listen. And because I have the stuff that you need, you just have to listen.

And you also get to know how to talk to people. People love respect. People love “stay within your limits, stay within your boundaries”. So long as you're not crossing the boundaries, I don't think we'll have much challenges.

And always know where to channel your problems. I don't go behind people. Your friend may find time to sort it out with you or go through the right channel. I don't go behind. I don't go ahead. We sort it out directly or I go to my next, what's it called? Line manager. So that's how I solve my problems.

[INTERVIEWER]: That's very good. You know, you have to make a demarcation between speaking as a QS and speaking as an educator. This is for academics. So I think the last comment you made is more centered towards professionally. What about the academic end? If you could just add on to that.

[INTERVIEWER 2]: And by the way, if she says something interesting, you can have leading questions. So for example, she just said something very interesting now. Like, you stay within your boundaries. So I would have asked, who sets up these boundaries? How do you know the boundary? It's very interesting, don't you think? Sometimes you don't know the boundary.

[INTERVIEWER 3]: Sorry, I just need to chip in since we’re chipping in. I just like that line, “when I speak, you have to listen”. Because you know your stuff. I just wanted to mention.

[INTERVIEWER]: Okay, so how do you balance your professional responsibilities and your personal life?

[INTERVIEWER 2]: You are going to the next question. She's going to add on to something. Just hold on.

[QS PRECIOUS]: Okay, in handling challenges as an academic. Yes, of course, you know the academic system is well structured. You have line managers, you have subordinates.

So when I have issues, like I said earlier, I try to sort out the issue with the person I have the issue with. I think I remember one scenario. I won't mention names.

[INTERVIEWER]: Yes, definitely.

[QS PRECIOUS]: But while practicing as an academic, he was also a colleague, a fellow HOD. And I think he didn't like what I did or something like that.

We were supposed to do something together. But we had some [conflicting ideas about how it should be done]. And of course, being the male, he was shouting. I saw it like, okay, this guy is actually being childish. So I didn't respond.

If you know me personally, I'm very calm. I don’t, you will rarely see me exchange words with someone in public. So I let him have his shine. We finished the task we were supposed to do together. And I went to meet him in his office. And I stood, I told him my mind. And I tell you, from that day till now, I think the way he sees me is now different.

I think the respect has been, if it was not there before, it's now there, or it's more heightened. Because I don't, you know they say two wrongs does not make a right. You can be shouting behind a problem. I will not engage you in that. It will just further fuel your annoyance. So I believe in solving issues more maturely.

Probably because of my position in the family as a first daughter. I'm used to settling issues in the family. So I'm more like the problem solver. So, even when my parents quarrel sometimes, they call my mom will be like, your dad has done this, and your dad will come, your mom has done this. And I'll find myself seriously settling issues between my parents. So I think my position in the family too has a role to play in helping me manage challenges generally, whether in the academics or in the profession.

[INTERVIEWER]: So you would say emotional intelligence, learning to keep a straight face, even when you are having a disagreement with someone and they seem to be losing their cool and screaming, it's always good to just maintain your poise, not to give them fire for fire. As a lot of people would say, I told him or I gave him a piece of my mind and things like that.

[QS PRECIOUS]: You know people associate that with women, when they see people quarreling, you always hear women's voices. It's not supposed to be. So the mature ones, why shout? Why create a scene? You can sort out these issues one on one without making a fuss about it.

Why not take the person out for a drink and sit down in a neutral environment and sort out your differences? And I also believe when you give people that kind of closure, they tend to respect you the more.

[INTERVIEWER]: So you would say for women, especially female educators, they need to work on themselves because women tend to be more emotional and might even react more emotionally, use their emotions to try to handle conflicts or disagreements.

What are your long-term goals and aspirations within the built environment of higher education? Where do you see yourself being within the next five to ten years? Congratulations on rounding up a PhD. That's amazing actually. We've had a lot of people who start out, especially women, and we know a lot of people want to see how far women can actually go.

So what are your long-term goals and aspirations?

[QS PRECIOUS]: I usually avoid such questions. Because I have my reasons. When I place, I don't know. I don't know whether it happens only to me. When I say things, I want to do this tomorrow, I want to do that tomorrow, and somehow it doesn't just happen.

[INTERVIEWER]: So you'd rather not say.

[QS PRECIOUS]: Yes. So, I'd rather say I'll keep improving myself, keep writing papers, keep doing what I need to do, and let's see where life takes us.

[INTERVIEWER]: Okay, you just played the maturity card there. Anyway, moving to our next question.

In what ways do you think the broader societal and cultural norms, especially in northern Nigeria, influence gender disparity within the built environment? In what ways do you think the broader society and cultural norms in northern Nigeria influence gender disparity? Like in the built environment, you have more men studying within the built environment and fewer women. Women study and then they don't end up practicing. How do you think this can be addressed effectively?

[INTERVIEWER 2]: Sorry should I review the question? Knowing northern Nigeria and the way the culture is traditionally, how do you see it affecting this gender balance within this built environment and as it affects women that end up being in academia?

[QS PRECIOUS]: Okay, I think more awareness needs to be made about the importance of women having education because the practice in the north is not encouraging when it comes to women having education quite early. So more awareness. We need to get to the grassroots to get them to see the importance of women in education and possibly celebrate the women who are already doing well.

Let them take these things to the grassroots. If you are a senator now, you go to your village. It's because I had formal education that's why I am where I am today.

It has a way of changing the mindset of the locals to say, okay, I think we should try putting our child in school, something like that.

[INTERVIEWER]: Okay, thank you. So coming to our last question, in your opinion, what role do you think institutions and stakeholders can play in promoting gender equity and creating a more supportive and inclusive environment, especially for female academics within the built environment?

[QS PRECIOUS]: Equal opportunities. When there are slots for promotion or for any consideration, give equal opportunities to women. Women need flexible work hours. You cannot have a woman teaching from 8 a.m. to 6 p.m., Monday to Friday. I mean, she gets back home, have a husband and children to cater for, and she will just be finished.

[INTERVIEWER]: Yes, she's drained already.

[QS PRECIOUS]: No, drained is an understatement. She will be finished.

[INTERVIEWER]: I can imagine the mental and psychological impact.

[QS PRECIOUS]: You know, apart from that, like what happens in my home, when I come back, the husband comes home with his stress, dumps it on me. The children come home with their stress and assignment, dumps on me. And I don't have any reserve. I don't have anybody to dump my stress on.

So imagine I've been stressed out all through the time I was at school. I come home, I have a lot to handle. That's why I use the word finished.

And that's why you see most people going into very deep mental breakdown because they cannot hold it. So the institutions can help by giving very flexible work hours for the women. Sometimes give them a day or two.

Come Monday, skip Tuesday, come Wednesday, skip Thursday, work Friday. Then when there are occasions for maternity, give them at least four months.

[INTERVIEWER]: Not the three months that is currently given.

[QS PRECIOUS]: Yes, the three months is not truly very sufficient because the woman is just recovering from a lot of sleepless nights and all that. Then adjusting to work environment is not easy. And then again, provide crèche within the campus so that the woman can easily go look after her child.

And then encourage further development. Support them for trainings. Pay for workshops, conferences.

And understand the fact that they are actually doing more than their male counterparts. I'm not trying to give excuses for women. You should earn what you are being paid for, right.

I don't also encourage excuses. Like you rightly said, I’m the head of department, I don't like when I give a task, and the first excuse I'm hearing is, I need to take my child to hospital. Come on, we all have children. I need to do school. We all have children. We are supposed to have plans.

I'm only saying, give more consideration. So if, for instance, a woman is truly, because if there is a family crisis, the first person it hits is the woman. If a child is not sick, the father will not skip work. The mother may. If a child is going for surgery, the mother often times will have to skip work, but the father will continue to work. So let's give consideration that in such cases, we'll be able to consider this woman, and also give her some time off.

[INTERVIEWER]: Thank you very much, QS Chioma. It's been wonderful having you in the studio today. Is there anything else that you would like to share before we close our session for today?

[QS PRECIOUS]: Well, being a product of mentorship, I believe in mentoring people. I also believe people should be mentored. Nobody has the monopoly of knowledge. You can always grow from tapping one or two things from people. You know a prof is good with paper? Please tag along. You will learn one or two things.

Thank you.